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今日下午3：30贾陆英老师《论语》问答录在老秘网QQ群“重温经典读书会”准时开讲。本期学习讨论《论语》为政篇第1章，网友们的参与热情高涨。老猫出差刚回，现整理如下： [7 {$ k: H g" umso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;mso-bidi-font-family:4 r, ^/ Y* A* @' `3 S( w% X
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">今天下午，我们学习讨论《论语》为政篇第1 _% o4 k. ~$ M: o5 g: \$ @: g
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( k, i; b D0 r4 @ C- {mso-font-kerning:0pt">为政以德，譬如北辰，居其所而众星共之。$ W' F$ y3 S; v2 r. `5 B! `+ G
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; c- {. X7 q& ^* a8 s! J% Z2 nTahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">北辰：指北极星。所：处所、位置。共：同拱，环绕。比喻众多的人簇拥着一个被他们尊敬的人，或许多东西围绕着一个中心。2 z1 X' k7 V' V' jmso-font-kerning:0pt">
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mso-font-kerning:0pt">靠高尚的品德来施政，这样的为政者好比是北极星，居于自己的位置上，众多的星星都环绕着它。2 _1 \6 z8 z$ L
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mso-font-kerning:0pt">问：这句话表达了孔子的什么主张？ K, x$ d! d! Y# e- A! H0 S% Jcolor:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">答：孔子以北辰居其中而众星环绕作比喻，深刻揭示了具有高尚品德对于为政者的重要性，具体、形象、生动地表达了孔子的德治思想。当时，在如何治理国家的问题上，主要有两种主张：其一是依靠政令刑法，强制百姓服从；其二是通过道德教化，引导百姓走上正道。孔子主张后者，强调为政者首先要以自己高尚的品德为榜样，尔后才能教化、影响、引导民众。' A W# W, T4 G$ \2 C
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">以政令刑法，民治而心不服，以礼仪道德，民治而心服 h/ V, }- J. Y# q) O
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! n( N+ k& Q6 Z# s( ]Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">仁政具体指的是什么？道德层面的东西我觉得都太虚了，没有一个标准。同志们认为呢9 D4 i: a$ M# G4 h" g
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! r/ a# D) c* g+ y4 Jmso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">是的，这就是孔子说的& N& ^: ]" I3 W4 V
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">道之以政，齐之以刑，民免而无耻；道之以德，齐之以礼，有耻且格。* F1 V8 v' n8 ~: e; O+ smso-font-kerning:0pt">"
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">德是孔子所说的君子之道吗？孔子的人性不分善恶，他信奉有教无类。我认为是孔子信奉的是德治礼治，而不是德治法治，儒法结合是后人的创新: a* Q. U; p3 [; B
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">儒家法家绝对是治国两大法宝，是不是有说内法外王。希望依靠道德来治理国家。道德高尚至极只能是圣人，而不是君王。君王要有仁爱之心，但不能妄想通过道德来治理国家吧。干部要清明、清廉、清白. o* e7 s2 U6 @# t' C3 \
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6 h" F8 G1 n) e" _" O/ ATahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">贾老师，学生认为：政令刑罚、道德教化二者不可偏其一，无道德教化，民暴而戾，无政令刑罚，民散而慢。总而言之，应用儒家思想来做人，用发家思想来做事，这也符合我们的辩证法思想。儒法相结合不是从以往执政者所言的外儒内法。应该是在去除封建统治者为维护统治所宣扬的糟粕基础上，留下儒家所宣扬的大仁、大爱的思想，在结合现代化的法制、民主的精神，才是真正的儒法结合。一味从古，不如不学& r n1 y2 C6 P7 M/ D& ]
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7 |4 w- t" y9 |% L! O* g- E" [Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">现在不是都在强调以民为本，为人民服务么) K# ?. `6 q& M4 s# j
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">这一思想的文化渊源，就是德治、仁政思想。德是孔子所说的君子之道吗？( F! [* R, }9 Z; F9 `
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mso-font-kerning:0pt">“贾老师，学生认为：政令刑罚、道德教化二者不可偏其一，无道德教化，民暴而戾，无政令刑罚，民散而慢。总而言之，应用儒家思想来做人，用发家思想来做事，这也符合我们的辩证法思想”6 H2 J) B* W' m. {! s* D
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0 m) J/ y3 Y' |8 g/ `% B$ Xmso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">基本赞同。孔子所说7 B i9 `; r, p$ h2 N( C
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6 o5 h- \ ?2 o8 M1 ^mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">道之以政，齐之以刑，民免而无耻；道之以德，齐之以礼，有耻且格。: d7 I1 c2 o5 L' W" g
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' f! z& _$ K% y! E: ^8 y8 }mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">本身就包含着德治与法治相结合的观点。) W3 n6 |# O* J% Q4 U5 y1 p1 p* Smso-font-kerning:0pt"> 6 N6 H4 @& X/ Z8 ?0 {+ O/ T$ u; w
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; B4 [: h1 m6 ?' Y9 zTahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">以礼仪道德，民治而心服9 A' ~" O9 N" N, ^! A7 @0pt"> # v" E7 g, B! K0 ~! B, yfont-family:宋体;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;, K# V6 L. r# J3 c$ J
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mso-font-kerning:0pt">以政令刑法，民治而心不服6 X+ Z& B0 k/ E- g0 v2 O# f
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2 |5 t. o$ t0 x% H" J8 N3 Cmso-font-kerning:0pt">人性本恶。人性本善，礼仪道德，天下大和。人性本恶，礼仪道德，与虎谋皮啊" n, q2 P: J$ |( g' |1 S* T+ s. k' vmso-font-kerning:0pt">
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">政令刑法重在社会上的约束，讲究实效，不遵守即被处罚，道德教化重在精神上、舆论上的约束，不遵守会被谴责和孤立，但不是收到立竿见影的实质处罚$ |4 w, ^: \1 d9 o4 [mso-font-kerning:0pt">
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+ i2 e5 b. E9 _2 OTahoma;color:#006EFE;mso-font-kerning:0pt">小风飕飕地：6 \4 I1 T0 L8 g8 F V0pt"> / ]6 a) X! S( J& w: F% H5 S
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" [6 N; }; r+ A/ |& O9 U+ Q" TTahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">我认为国治才能民安，所以教化没人人外儒是必要的，每个人也都有义务做到外儒！民安后如何能够实现久安呢？这就需要内法的作用啦！6 N4 C. G# _: J1 ^1 L" @
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1 | p; m8 e9 p4 H* dTahoma;color:#006EFE;mso-font-kerning:0pt">Leslie/ p) N7 S7 V. t: v
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">我觉得现在很多人被大众观念里的道德观绑架了，就出现了所谓的装和假: o1 H- E- ]6 Z: |4 G& Amso-font-kerning:0pt">
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">儒学是以伦理道德思想为特质的观念体系，这是它区别于世界上其他文明的显著特征之一。儒学是以礼乐文明为中心的文化系统，这是它区别于世界上其他文明的又一显著特征。现在确有一些人认为，道德修养方面的问题是+ \2 I7 @ Q6 ^: K6 L! ~mso-font-kerning:0pt">“& M/ H7 \- i9 j, nfont-family:宋体;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;
% \. o [3 ~2 x3 |/ c% m% g0 Amso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">细节问题/ T! `1 y# s/ B
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">，没有必要小题大做。这种认识是十分错误和有害的。% z8 @5 \" x8 s) Y3 y5 X
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& ]9 k" C2 ?: m9 Y! @$ ]3 wmso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">千里之堤，溃于蚁穴7 R1 {; E" n1 S' ?$ J( J1 I/ t
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">，少数人走上违法犯罪道路，往往是从道德品质上出问题开始的。没有职业操守，就不可能做到爱岗敬业。我们培养敬业精神，一定要紧紧抓住加强道德修养这个重点。
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